Snort mailing list archives
RE: Demarc Certified Open Signatures
From: "Eric Hines" <eric.hines () appliedwatch com>
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:07:20 -0600
Hi Joel, Funny introduction :) No problem on sticking together as GCIA's... :) We all have our own opinions on the matter despite what certifications we share. Believe it or not, I actually agree with you. Perhaps I should have made clear in my email that I understand the business decision behind what they are doing. Hell, I really don't care that they are charging for early access to those signatures, if companies are doing what they say they are doing, than I would respond the same way. We don't make money here off Snort signatures nor do we make money off Snort. We do have a line of Snort sensor appliances but that's merely for customers who don't want to install Snort themselves. We aren't an IDS company. Snort is one of MANY solutions we support as a SIM solution. Look, this will be my last post on the matter because frankly I really don't see what the big "hoop - lah" is about the whole thing. If Sourcefire were to take all the signatures and begin charging for them with no subscription service at all, than that would be a different story. But what we're talking about here is a 5 day waiting period that any of us have the capability within that period of time, to make the same Snort signatures if we don't want to wait on Sourcefire. That's the beauty behind open source and the great thing about having an open signature format that we all understand how to write. Example, if a new exploit or worm comes out that we need a signature for, you can either pay to subscribe to the VRT Feed or make the signature yourself. Maybe Brian Caswell flames you because the signature sucks or its better than Sourcefire's but either way, you've got a signature and you have the option to get it for free. I suppose I'm hoping this is the extent of Sourcefire's decision regarding the commercialization of anything Snort. And if Martin and the rest of Sourcefire says it is, than I suppose we have to take them at their word. I'm just out to make sure that Applied Watch conforms to any changes made to what's allowed in the distribution of rules made prior to the VRT subscription service. My last comments on the matter. Best Regards, Eric Hines, GCIA, CISSP CEO, President, Chairman Applied Watch Technologies, LLC 1134 N. Main St. Algonquin, IL 60102 Tel: (877) 262-7593 x327 Fax: (877) 262-7593 Web: http://www.appliedwatch.com ________________________________ From: Esler, Joel CNTR/Sytex [mailto:joel.esler () rcert-s army mil] Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:24 PM To: Eric Hines Cc: spamtrap () winsnort com; 'Snort Users Postings' Subject: RE: [Snort-users] Demarc Certified Open Signatures Eric, for as much as us GCIA's have to stick together, I have to disagree with you. While I am an open source advocate, I have to agree with Sourcefire's business model. It only makes sense from a business point of view... People (Other companies) are selling Sourcefire's work as the their own. This is an effort to preserve that for 5 days. It's only 5 days! You won't know the difference anyway! J On Thu, 2005-03-03 at 09:48 -0600, Eric Hines wrote: Michael, I Agree. This is only the beginning. Three or so years ago a good friend, Jed Pickel posted to this list when Martin announced the creation of Sourcefire. He called it and said stuff like this would happen and was flamed for it. I think he deserves accolades for standing up and saying something because he ended up being right after all. This is only the beginning, indeed. I think its naïve to think that Roesche has any more control over there at Sourcefire as to what happens with the Snort project, which is under the control of copyrights and trademarks by Sourcefire, Inc. He has brought in so much VC money that I'd be surprised if he is a majority shareholder anymore at that company -- its near impossible. The fate of the Snort project is in the hands and control of the Board of Directors at Sourcefire and it's VC's -- not snort.org. Hell, its even hosted by Sourcefire. [snort.org] NS1.SOURCEFIRE.COM 12.4.213.2 NS2.SOURCEFIRE.COM 199.107.65.180 IMHO this is a very poor move by Sourcefire. I've spoken to a lot of organizations about this over the past week (as we received a letter from Sourcefire announcing this way before this announcement) who laughed at the very thought of paying for Signatures simply so they can get it when they are immediately released. Wait 5 days and you get those signatures. If they actually get ANY organizations who are willing to pay for this subscription, the number of companies willing to pay for it will be far exceeded by the number of people they've upset. Do the math Sourcefire. They've done nothing except give themselves a black eye. My look in to the future: Projects like the Bleeding Edge will pop up all over the place offering a safe haven for Snort rule creation and distribution. The beautiful thing about Snort signatures is anyone can make them. When a new 0day exploit or worm comes out, their will be a race between all these projects as to who can get the best signature out and who can do it the fastest. If you get enough people together, more rules can be developed and can be developed much faster than Sourcefire. I also see other open source IDS projects starting, IDS' like Firestorm, Prelude, etc. that use the Snort signature syntax we're already all familiar with. Best Regards, Eric Hines, GCIA, CISSP CEO, President, Chairman Applied Watch Technologies, LLC 1134 N. Main St. Algonquin, IL 60102 Tel: (877) 262-7593 x327 Fax: (877) 262-7593 Web: http://www.appliedwatch.com -----Original Message----- From: snort-users-admin () lists sourceforge net [mailto:snort-users-admin () lists sourceforge net] On Behalf Of Michael Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 6:05 PM To: 'Snort Users Postings' Subject: RE: [Snort-users] Demarc Certified Open Signatures Remember this one thing; If not for the dedication of pre-Sourcefire contributions from others, Snort would not be where it is today, and this goes for Sourcefire. This is only the beginning. Does it seem inconceivable that in the future Snort builds might be treated the same as the rules are. If it's OK to do this with the rules, then where does it stop... Kindest regards, Michael... WINSNORT.com Management Team Member -- Pick up your FREE Windows or UNIX Snort installation guides mailto:support () winsnort com Website: http://www.winsnort.com Snort: Open Source Network IDS - http://www.snort.org > -----Original Message----- > From: snort-users-admin () lists sourceforge net [mailto:snort-users- > admin () lists sourceforge net] On Behalf Of Bob Konigsberg > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 2:31 PM > To: 'Bamm Visscher'; 'Demarc Security' > Cc: snort-users () lists sourceforge net > Subject: RE: [Snort-users] Demarc Certified Open Signatures > > I don't think that's the key point here. This has already happened > with Nessus and Snort - that is, people are making money off of their > open source work, and not giving credit OR cash back to the > developers. > > It's kind of sad where a few folks spoil it, but both organizations > are trying hard to stick to their roots - while getting what's due them. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: snort-users-admin () lists sourceforge net > [mailto:snort-users-admin () lists sourceforge net] On Behalf Of Bamm > Visscher > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 2:19 PM > To: Demarc Security > Cc: snort-users () lists sourceforge net > Subject: Re: [Snort-users] Demarc Certified Open Signatures > > Shouldn't a reputable company, who is supposedly committed to the > opensource community ensure that the copyright notices for the rules > files stay intact? > > Bammkkkk > > On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 10:09:11 -0800 (PST), Demarc Security > <snort_ml () demarc org> wrote: > > > > > > Since our inception in 2001, Demarc has been committed to promoting > > secure Internet use by providing free versions of our products for > > users > at home. > > We believe that because we use Open Source technology such as Linux > > and Snort, that we should give back to the security community as a > > whole. We have continued to fulfill this commitment, most recently > > with the release of our Sentarus HomeAdmin Edition, which allows > > people to deploy some of our latest security technology in their > > home > lab > environments at no cost. > > > > In addition to our Sentarus and PureSecure products, our customers > > have also benefited from the expertise of our Threat Research Team > > which has, to date, been tasked with verifying rule stream updates > > and educating customers on the detailed workings of Snort > > technology. In light of some upcoming changes, we're now expanding > > our research team and formally announcing our new "Certified Open Signatures" program. > > Our Certified Open Signatures program, which will be universally > > available to the entire community, is founded on these two principles: > > > > 1) Like the Snort program itself, the latest rule signatures should > > always be available for free because strong computer and network > > security are in everyone's best interests. > > > > 2) The best way for a company to serve a community project is to > > remain true to the original goals of that project and refrain > > from charging for vital components that have always been > > community-driven and free. > > > > We make this announcement now, as we have recently received notice > > from Sourcefire that, as of next week, early access to all future > > Snort signatures they create will be based on a subscription model. > > > > The Sourcefire license changes as they were presented to us are: > > > > - All rule updates will be a minimum of five days older than those > > Sourcefire sells to their customers, and you will be required to > > register to receive them or to wait for the next major Snort > > release. > > > > - To receive the latest rules any sooner, you will have to pay > > Sourcefire a rule subscription fee. > > > > We sincerely respect the efforts of the Sourcefire Snort development > > group along with the numerous others who created the base technology > > and rulesets that have made Snort a household name in the security > > community. However, one of the greatest benefits of using Snort is > > the community review process which will now be subject to an imposed > arbitrary delay. > > > > At Demarc, our commitment to the security community is simple: > > > > - Demarc will maintain http://snort.demarc.com/ as a community > portal > > for Snort signatures and Snort-based technology. (This site is > > meant to augment and not replace snort.org or the snort-sigs > > mailing list.) > > > > - Demarc will produce and revise rules, as well as collaborate with > > active groups to bring together the best rules from all community > > sources. User sites such as Bleeding Snort have been at the > > forefront of new signature development and we view these groups' > > contributions as invaluable. Our goal is to work with these > > groups and to serve as the trusted source for certified, > > production level rulesets. > > > > - Demarc's Threat Research Team will continue to provide the latest > > cutting-edge and Demarc Certified rules, making them immediately > > available for public download and contribution. > > > > - Demarc will not charge for the download, use, or modification of > > rules hosted on this site. > > > > Our community portal at http://snort.demarc.com/ will continually > > evolve over the next several weeks to offer more features, including > > direct user interaction. Our community portal will also become the > > new home for the SPADE statistical packet anomaly detection project > > and SnortSnarf, two projects originally managed by SiliconDefense > > and > subsequently transferred to Demarc. > > > > We welcome your support on these projects through signature review > > and submissions, and, as with all community projects, your feedback > > is always welcome to help make it better. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Ashlyn Reznik > > Demarc Threat Research Team > > Email: areznik () demarc com > > http://www.demarc.com/products/ > > > > > -- > sguil - The Analyst Console for NSM > http://sguil.sf.net > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid > reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Snort-users mailing list > Snort-users () lists sourceforge net > Go to this URL to change user options or unsubscribe: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/snort-users > Snort-users list archive: > http://www.geocrawler.com/redir-sf.php3?list=snort-users > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid > reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Snort-users mailing list > Snort-users () lists sourceforge net > Go to this URL to change user options or unsubscribe: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/snort-users > Snort-users list archive: > http://www.geocrawler.com/redir-sf.php3?list=snort-users ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click _______________________________________________ Snort-users mailing list Snort-users () lists sourceforge net Go to this URL to change user options or unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/snort-users Snort-users list archive: http://www.geocrawler.com/redir-sf.php3?list=snort-users ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id396&op=click _______________________________________________ Snort-users mailing list Snort-users () lists sourceforge net Go to this URL to change user options or unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/snort-users Snort-users list archive: http://www.geocrawler.com/redir-sf.php3?list=snort-users -- Esler, Joel CNTR/Sytex <joel.esler () rcert-s army mil> ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id396&op=click _______________________________________________ Snort-users mailing list Snort-users () lists sourceforge net Go to this URL to change user options or unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/snort-users Snort-users list archive: http://www.geocrawler.com/redir-sf.php3?list=snort-users
Current thread:
- Re: Sourcefire Tactics - New Licensing, (continued)
- Re: Sourcefire Tactics - New Licensing James Riden (Mar 03)
- RE: Sourcefire Tactics - New Licensing Michael Steele (Mar 03)
- RE: Sourcefire Tactics - New Licensing Theodore Stout (Mar 04)
- Re: Sourcefire Tactics - New Licensing Martin Roesch (Mar 04)
- Re: Sourcefire Tactics - New Licensing Paul Schmehl (Mar 04)
- Re: Sourcefire Tactics - New Licensing Brian (Mar 04)
- Re: Sourcefire Tactics - New Licensing Kevin Johnson (Mar 04)
- RE: Demarc Certified Open Signatures Eric Hines (Mar 04)
- Re: Demarc Certified Open Signatures Guillaume Arcas (Mar 04)
- RE: Demarc Certified Open Signatures Esler, Joel CNTR/Sytex (Mar 04)
- RE: Demarc Certified Open Signatures Eric Hines (Mar 03)
- RE: Demarc Certified Open Signatures Frank Knobbe (Mar 05)
- RE: Demarc Certified Open Signatures Jose Maria Lopez Hernandez (Mar 03)
- Re: Demarc Certified Open Signatures Demarc Security (Mar 02)
- RE: Demarc Certified Open Signatures Paul Schmehl (Mar 04)