Security Basics mailing list archives
RE: chat logs
From: aixroot () mindspring com
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:32:44 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
I do, in fact have children who I love very much and yes I talk to them and they know they can tell me anything. I do however agree with Mihai that a teenage grafitti prank while disturbing is not grounds for searching through all teens computers. 99.8% are completely innocent and do not deserve the big brother treatment. Even teens need the ability to express their distaste for their principal or their ex-girlfriend or whatever and chat allows them to do this semi-anonymously. The question then becomes if the teen in question is using public facilities such as school equipment, library, etc. then the county/municipality/city or what have you has every right to search. Searching through all teenagers computers in your geographical area is EXTREMELY inefficeint at best. Furthermore chances are that this disturbed teen does not have parents that have the caring or time necessary to hunt through logs to prove their son or daughter are responsible. I'm sure that if you think about it, you'd realize that "if they are doing nothing wrong, then there is nothing to hide and have "private" is a spurious and specious bit of reasoning. We are all concerned about this situation but it will not necessarily become a columbine. History shows us that people that act out like this will become bolder until caught or until they cannot wait to tell someone else and things are eventually leaked. My recomendation would be adding some physical security, to the school computer labs, cameras, perhaps a camera OUTSIDE the bathrooms. Then school administrators can visits the restrooms in question between periods and then bring in the police for questioning of the students that went in. Locker searches, because this is school property, bomb sniffing dogs to sniff out students and faculty cars. There are more creative and more efficient ways of catching a theif or a vandal than by searching all computers. I would ask the question, what happens then when no evidence is found on any students home computers. Do you then go to all the teen's uncle's and aunts houses, then to all adults? Then to everyone outside of your district? There is a slipery slope that you're dangling from and you might start alienating those in the security community that can best help you. I very much care about the danger to the welfare of your town, but I also care very much about the right to privacy. I sincerely hope that this problem is resolved but I just wanted to point out that just because there is a problem does not give you GOD rights. FYI Melissa Fischer Database Administrator Data and System Engineering North Memorial Health Care 763/520-1533 melissa.fischer () northmemorial com
Melissa Fischer 5/13/2005 10:49:39 AM >>>
I understand your concern, apparently you must not be a parent. I have raised 3 sons, 24, 20 and now an 8 year old. Teenagers talk to EACH OTHER, not to their parents. Our parents HAVE personally talked to their children, looking at files on their computers is not taking away their privacy, if they are doing nothing wrong, then there is nothing to hide and have "private". Melissa Fischer Database Administrator Data and System Engineering North Memorial Health Care 763/520-1533 melissa.fischer () northmemorial com
Mihai Amarandei <mihai () xmcopartners com> 5/13/2005 9:45:28 AM >>>
I'm glad too se everyone helping out to find the logs and giving advice on how to search those teen-agers web history. Just me(and this has nothing to do with security), but wouldn't it be better that each parent asked directly its children about such incidents instead of searching and digining through their logs and web history? I for one wouldn't like it that my parents knew all my browsing and chatting habbits, and I think this is the case for most of today's persons. Teens are as ,uch entitled to their privacy "apriori" as anyone else in my opinion. I know all I've said has not much to do with security (actually it has to do with privacy), but neither is searching for logs. I'm not trying to undermine the importance of the threat and the gravity of the situation, I just don't think such an intrusion of privacy would be a good answer. Mihai Blog: http://secinternship.blogspot.com Melissa Fischer wrote:
Our community, Waconia, Minnesota has recently been the victims of threats against our children and schools. http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5399090.html The Emergency Response Task Force assigned to our case asked parents to go home and check their kids computers for any chats or emails with information. We are trying to find a document explaining where and what to look at to find any information. We would like to post this on our school main page www.waconia.k12.mn.us for a resource for parents to use on how to find any information. Can you tell me where to find this information? Thank you in advance, Melissa Fischer Database Administrator Data and System Engineering North Memorial Health Care 763/520-1533 melissa.fischer () northmemorial com
-- Mihai Amarandei-Stavila - Xmco Partners Consultant Sécurité / Test d'intrusion tel : 33 1 47 34 68 61 web : http://www.xmcopartners.com Villa Gabrielle 75015 PARIS
Current thread:
- RE: Re: chat logs, (continued)
- RE: Re: chat logs Stephen Alford (May 16)
- RE: Re: chat logs David (May 17)
- Re: Re: chat logs Greg Stiavetti (May 16)
- RE: Re: chat logs Bob Beck (May 17)
- Re: chat logs - moderator's note Kelly Martin (May 18)
- Re: Re: chat logs Steve (May 17)
- RE: Re: chat logs Stephen Alford (May 16)
- RE: chat logs Nick Kriger (May 13)
- RE: chat logs Keller, Tim (May 13)
- Re: chat logs Zaven (May 16)
- Re: chat logs Times Enemy (May 16)
- Re: chat logs Zaven (May 16)
- RE: chat logs aixroot (May 16)
- RE: Re: chat logs Beauford, Jason (May 17)
- Re: chat logs Dave Aronson (May 18)
- Re: chat logs Alexander Klimov (May 18)
- RE: chat logs Steve Bostedor (May 17)
- Re: chat logs Stian Øvrevåge (May 18)
- RE: Re: chat logs Joshua Berry (May 18)
- RE: Re: chat logs Melissa Fischer (May 18)
- Re: FW: Re: chat logs Jeff Smith (May 18)
- RE: Re: chat logs Stephen Alford (May 18)
- Re: chat logs John Blackley (May 18)