Bugtraq mailing list archives
Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle
From: imipak <imipak () gmail com>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:01:19 +0000
Hi Raju, On Nov 14, 2007 3:20 AM, Raj Mathur <raju () linux-delhi org> wrote:
The mail addresses can only be stored if the server through which the mail is relayed (or on which it originates) falls under the law. I'd presume that's not a significant percentage of all mails sent out from any country.
(a) (as you say) they can of course be trivially extracted from the traffic flow at the provider level. cf the current EFF / NSA / San Francisco case - that (as I understand it) is probably in breach of the US Constitution, yet it happened/is happening. The German law, and similar laws in the UK and other countries, implicitly (at least) enables such tactics; (b) most mail users use mail servers at their employers or their local ISP (ISPs with retail presence in multiple territories will of course have mail servers in situated locally); (c) the balance, excluding those weirdos running their own personal MTA / MSAs, will be using webmail services like Hotmail and Gmail. Tracerouting from the machine I'm typing this on (in the UK) shows a route through my ISP, to LINX (the London IX), and then straight into Google space. The RTT all the way to the final hop is in the 30ms range: [...] 8 209.85.248.80 (209.85.248.80) 25.302 ms 24.348 ms 25.605 ms MPLS Label 548800 TTL=1 9 209.85.248.79 (209.85.248.79) 27.972 ms 36.281 ms 26.562 ms 10 72.14.233.77 (72.14.233.77) 28.266 ms 29.057 ms 27.273 ms 11 66.249.94.146 (66.249.94.146) 29.517 ms 30.668 ms 30.179 ms 12 ik-in-f19.google.com (66.249.91.19) 28.092 ms 27.926 ms 28.564 ms ...which strongly suggests to me that the front-end Gmail webserver my "mail" hits is probably pretty close to me. It's certainly not on the other side of the Atlantic. There's quite a lot of cooperation between EU member states, would a "UKUSA"-type arrangement in the EU be very surprising? =i On Nov 14, 2007 3:20 AM, Raj Mathur <raju () linux-delhi org> wrote:
On Tuesday 13 November 2007 15:29, Florian Echtler wrote:[snip] As a native German speaker, allow me to clarify: with respect to IP communication, the law mandates saving the following information for 6 months: - which customer was assigned which IP for what timespan - sender mail address, receiver mail address and sender IP for each mail - in case of VOIP: caller and callee phone number and IP addressThe mail addresses can only be stored if the server through which the mail is relayed (or on which it originates) falls under the law. I'd presume that's not a significant percentage of all mails sent out from any country. Of course, it's also possible to track (snoop) all SMTP traffic on the network, but that's totally different from just keeping mail and AAA server logs and from my understanding that's not what this law mandates. Regards, -- Raju -- Raj Mathur raju () kandalaya org http://kandalaya.org/ Freedom in Technology & Software || February 2008 || http://freed.in/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves
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Current thread:
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle, (continued)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle johan beisser (Nov 12)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Matt D. Harris (Nov 12)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle johan beisser (Nov 12)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Florian Echtler (Nov 13)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Paul Wouters (Nov 13)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle johan beisser (Nov 13)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 13)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Frank Guthausen (Nov 14)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Matt D. Harris (Nov 12)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle johan beisser (Nov 12)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Stefano Zanero (Nov 13)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Raj Mathur (Nov 14)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle imipak (Nov 14)
- RE: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Quark IT - Hilton Travis (Nov 17)