Bugtraq mailing list archives
Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle
From: johan beisser <jb () caustic org>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:15:53 -0800
On Nov 12, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Matt D. Harris wrote:
However some of these issues can be mitigated without too much trouble. For example, one could have a dynamically growing dictionary of words to search for based on random words in random results pages that it grabs. At the very least, this would kill any attempts to filter it out of the data mining system.
That'd be a significantly different approach. Even grabbing data from the previously browsed cache would also work, as far as seeding dictionary goes.
If the point of the system is primarily to create plausible deniability for the end-user, that is, to allow them to say "hayneedle hit the site, not me, so I am innocent", then I'd say it could be effective in that regard barring some proviso in the law that allow them to persecute someone who did not actually even visit a site of their own volition. Beyond that, it's also effective in terms of turning up the noise to signal ratio and making this law that much less effective, while placing a greater burden of ISPs who are then more likely to lobby against it ever more vigorously.... all while remaining entirely 'white area' in terms of functionality.
If I read the law correctly, it requires retention of "what IP connected to another IP" and "which phone number called where." It doesn't bother retaining the URL called (my German is rusty, so I may be a little off in my interpretation). Connecting to a random IP on a random open port (80 and 443, for example) would be a good start to accomplish the goal creating chatter. The issue is that the search terms to find those ports could lead to connecting to a site that increases your profile against general background chatter, even as it is raised with random connection traffic.
In that light, I'd regard use of something akin to TOR a slightly better solution for protecting privacy and filling up logs.
I understand your post, but I don't think Mr. Ziegler was over- selling his product's effectiveness beyond what it is really capable of.
I wasn't saying there was overselling the effectiveness. I do think the approach is innately flawed from a privacy standpoint.
Current thread:
- Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Paul Sebastian Ziegler (Nov 12)
- Re: [Full-disclosure] Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Jan Newger (Nov 12)
- Re: [Full-disclosure] Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Peter Conrad (Nov 13)
- Re: [Full-disclosure] Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Duncan Simpson (Nov 13)
- Re: [Full-disclosure] Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle johan beisser (Nov 13)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle johan beisser (Nov 12)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Matt D. Harris (Nov 12)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle johan beisser (Nov 12)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Florian Echtler (Nov 13)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Paul Wouters (Nov 13)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle johan beisser (Nov 13)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 13)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Frank Guthausen (Nov 14)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Matt D. Harris (Nov 12)
- Re: [Full-disclosure] Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Jan Newger (Nov 12)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Stefano Zanero (Nov 13)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Raj Mathur (Nov 14)
- Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle imipak (Nov 14)
- RE: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle Quark IT - Hilton Travis (Nov 17)