Re: The right to bear arms & make salad

["Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb () byrneit net>]

First, this isn't about murder rates, but about the fundamental
underpinning of liberty: that it is we the people, not the state, who
are vested with ultimate power. I'd be willing to accept a 10x higher
chance of being killed over the "safety" of a police state.
 
But, to your point: The murder rate in the US has decreased more in
jurisdictions that have enacted "shall issue" concealed carry than those
that haven't, and the worst places are those with effective bans, like
DC.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Guns,_Less_Crime
 
And the UK gun ban resulted in an INCREASE in crime with Guns, not a
decrease:
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm
 
Criminals get guns the same way the get property and drugs: smuggling
and theft. Disarming civilians only makes them more convenient victims
for thugs.
 
Next you'll be advocating the banning of Metasploit, nmap and nessus, so
as to reduce hacking.
 
BTW: I'll take a higher death rate (especially given that 50% of US
deaths involving guns are suicides) for a much lower violent crime rate.
 
http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2007/01/crime-in-uk-versus-crime-in-us.html
 
 


________________________________

        From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org
[mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org] On Behalf Of Richard M. Smith
        Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:56 PM
        To: funsec () linuxbox org
        Subject: Re: [funsec] The right to bear arms & make salad
        
        

        The murder rate in the U.K. is about 5 times lower than the
U.S.:

         

        
http://fleshisgrass.wordpress.com/2007/04/17/us-and-uk-murder-rate-and-w
eapon/

        In the UK (population c. 60.5m) there were 765 reported
incidents of murder for 2005-6 (Home Office, undated) - a rate of about
1.1 per 100,000.

        In the US (population c. 298.5m) there were an estimated 16,137
homicides in 2004 (FBI, 2006a) - a rate of about 5.4 per 100,000. Of
these, 10,654 were carried out with guns (FBI, 2006b).

        The murder rate in the U.S. has dropped a good bit in the '90s
because we are putting more people in prison.  In fact, the U.S. has the
largest prison population on the planet.

        Richard

         

         

        From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org
[mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org] On Behalf Of Tomas L. Byrnes
        Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:07 PM
        To: Imri Goldberg; funsec () linuxbox org
        Subject: Re: [funsec] The right to bear arms & make salad

         

        Since banning guns didn't stop the increase in violent crime,
nor universal surveillance, more removing the rights of the law abiding
must be the solution, right?

         

        What happened to the fundamental principle in Common Law that no
freeman may be debarred the use of arms?

         

        The framers of the US Constitution could see the writing on the
wall after the Restoration, hence they made sure that our pre-existing
rights were fully codified.

         

        And don't tell me this isn't about security. Physical security,
the right, which without the means is meaningless, to defend your life,
liberty and property, is the basis of all other rights.

        
         

________________________________

                From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org
[mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org] On Behalf Of Imri Goldberg
                Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 5:15 AM
                To: funsec () linuxbox org
                Subject: [funsec] The right to bear arms & make salad

                For Brian Loe and Drsolly:
                
                http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm
                
                "Most fatal stabbings involve a weapon that is easy to
obtain and sharp with it - a kitchen knife. Would stopping the sale of
long blades with sharp points help save lives?"
                
                I think it's even more funny when you consider the fact
that it's in the UK.
                
                Cheers
                Imri
                
                (hat tip to Alisa
<http://alisainwonderland.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/%D7%AA%D7%A2%D7%A6%D7
%A8%D7%95-%D7%90%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%9D-%D7%90%D7%A0%D7%99
-%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%94stop-the-world-i-want-to/>  for the link.)
                -- 
                Imri Goldberg
                --------------------------------------
                www.algorithm.co.il/blogs/
                www.imri.co.il
                --------------------------------------
                -- insert signature here ---- 

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