funsec mailing list archives
Re: So, did the BBC cross the line?
From: Gadi Evron <ge () linuxbox org>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:37:41 -0500 (CDT)
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009, Alex Eckelberry wrote:
* Alex Eckelberry:But malware researchers routinely deal with botnets for analysis purposes. It would be considered a high crime indeed to allow aspambotto actually send spam to the outside world, even for "testing"purposes. I think you've missed the peer-reviewed paper for an ACM conference where the researchers did exactly that. It's probably not even an obscure group, I recognized the name of one of the coauthors (and I usually can't remember names). 8-/Yes, I missed it. Not sure if the point you're making is to exonerate the BBC or counter my argument. But I'd love to see the document. At any rate, I think everyone agrees that it's unethical to play with a live botnet to send spam, even for research purposes (meaning, you're directing a user's computer to do something without their knowledge and assent, which is fundamentally a bad thing).
This story shouts at us "OH COME ON!!" the bad guys (CRIMINALS!) do much more any day. All these people did was raise awareness and create some traffic." Well, yes. It shouts that at me as well. Thing is, even if they didn't break the law (which they did), they were simply too unaware of how this works to understand how this all works (...), and they did violate the privacy and safety of 20,000 hapless users. Then they sent a lot of traffic through networks around the world, even if the eventual target was themselves. We will never know if someone lost their documents because of them, or which of the computers they happened to pwn for a moment there was carrying CP or was DDoSing someone else as well. We do know they made it look "OKAY". Which it isn't. Things are so easy with computers it takes us some time to realize when they might be wrong. Personally, it took me years to "grow up" my online personality and ethics. Luckily I grew up around IRC family and help channels. A friend of mine, who is a much more serious person than I am, grew up around mp3 sharing circles and he still speaks in kiddie when online and sees nothing wrong with disconnecting what happens online with real life.
OTH, we've installed spam zombies on machines here in closed networks for the purpose of analyzing their behavior to design mitigation strategies. The self-generated spam doesn't go anywhere but to another machine in our network. If that's the case with the ACM paper, I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Alex _______________________________________________ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
_______________________________________________ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Current thread:
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line?, (continued)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? David Harley (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? Alex Eckelberry (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? David Harley (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? nick hatch (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? nick hatch (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? Gadi Evron (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? nick hatch (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? Alex Eckelberry (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? Florian Weimer (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? Alex Eckelberry (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? Gadi Evron (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? Paul Ferguson (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah (Mar 15)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? David Harley (Mar 16)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? Valdis . Kletnieks (Mar 14)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? David Harley (Mar 15)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? Larry Seltzer (Mar 15)
- Re: So, did the BBC cross the line? David Harley (Mar 14)