nanog mailing list archives
Re: Westnet and Utah outage
From: joliveto () cwi net
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 22:19:00 -0500
Hans; Sorry...I waited for additional replies but you seemed to be the only one to take my bait. My question was rhetorical. I hear all this complaining on this forum about unacceptable delay and packet loss by the ISP Community yet no "respected" industry standards body has yet set QOS guidelines for ISP's! An old management dictum says "if its important, measure it". I know where to look for QOS criteria on my physical plant (T1/DS3's), I even know where to look for QOS criteria for my old X.25 network. If we want things to get better w/i the ISP Community...let's define what better is. - jeff - On Thu, 23 Nov 95, hwb () upeksa sdsc edu (Hans-Werner Braun) wrote:
Question: Which RFC should I consult to determine acceptable delay and
packet
loss?RFCs are the result of IETF activities. The IETF is essentially a protocol standardization group, not an operations group. I don't think you perceive the IETF as "running" your network, or? There may not be much of an alternative, though, which to a large extend is the issue at hand. Nobody is responsible (individually or as a consortium or whatever) of this anarchically organized and largely uncoordinated (at a systemic level) global operational environment. While IETF/RFCs could be utilized somehow, this is not really an issue of theirs. I sure would not blame the IETF for not delivering here, is this is not their mandate. In other email I saw it seems that the important issues are hard to understand for some. I (and I suspect several others) don't really care much about a specific tactical issue (be it an outage or whatever). The issue is how to make the system work with predictable performance and a fate sharing attitude at a global level, in a commercial and competitive environment that is still extremely young at that, and attempts to accomodate everything from mom'n'pop shops to multi-billion dollar industry. And exhibits exponential usage and ubiquity growth, without the resources to upgrade quickly to satisfy all the demands. And no control over in-flows, and major disparities across the applications. And TCP flow control not working that well, as the aggregation of transactions is very heavy, and the packet-per-transaction count is so low on average that TCP may not be all that much better to the network than UDP (in terms of adjusting to jitter in available resources). Not to mention this age-old problem with routing table sizes and routing table updates.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Oliveto | Phone: +1.703.760.1764 Sr.Mgr Opns Technical Services | Fax: +1.703.760.3321 Cable & Wireless, Inc | Email: joliveto () cwi net 1919 Gallows Road | URL: http://www.cwi.net/ Vienna, VA 22182 | NOC: +1.800.486.9999 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- Westnet and Utah outage Gordon Cook (Nov 22)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Scott Huddle (Nov 22)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Gordon Cook (Nov 22)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Hans-Werner Braun (Nov 22)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Curtis Villamizar (Nov 22)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Avi Freedman (Nov 22)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage joliveto (Nov 23)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Hans-Werner Braun (Nov 23)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Curtis Villamizar (Nov 27)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Jim Forster (Nov 30)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Gordon Cook (Nov 22)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage joliveto (Nov 28)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Edward Henigin (Nov 29)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Jeff Hayward (Nov 22)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Hans-Werner Braun (Nov 22)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Curtis Villamizar (Nov 22)
- Re: Westnet and Utah outage Hans-Werner Braun (Nov 22)