RE: RE: RE: NYSE

["Temkin, David" <temkin () sig com>]

You are correct.  The rings are geographically diverse and separated
(ie, they have separate rings for each metro and then tie the rings
together in multiple places).  No idea about the right-of-ways, but my
understanding is that it wasn't necessarily meant to be a be-all-end-all
for those sorts of outages.

You are correct, however, it is one of the most reliable infrastructures
we connect to. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: R. Benjamin Kessler [mailto:rbk () midwestnsg com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:39 PM
> To: sgorman1 () gmu edu; 'Temkin, David'
> Cc: 'Alen Capalik'; 'Philip Lavine'; 'nanog'
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: NYSE
>
> My understanding is that the way the SFTI network is built 
> the loss of an entire ring between Site A and Site B wouldn't 
> cause an outage because Site B would also have a ring between 
> it and Site C and Site A would be connected to Site n.
>
> I can't speak to how the fibers were procured and whether or 
> not they're in their own rights-of-way (as another poster 
> suggested; I'd guess that they're using previously dark fiber 
> in existing bundles).
>
> Based-on the drawings I've seen (unfortunately, they don't 
> appear to be on SFTI's web site so they must be considered 
> proprietary) the multiple rings are separated in some places 
> by several hundred miles to prevent the single back hoe incident.
>
> Aside from the $$ and the joy of dealing with SIAC (they tend 
> to be a bit inflexible at times), the infrastructure has been 
> quite stable in the 18 months that my client has been using it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-nanog () merit edu [mailto:owner-nanog () merit edu] On 
> Behalf Of sgorman1 () gmu edu
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:31 AM
> To: Temkin, David
> Cc: Alen Capalik; Philip Lavine; nanog
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: NYSE
>
>
>
> So, that would be a another conduit sitting in the same right 
> of way, and this is supposed to make it "completely 
> independent".  Last time I checked a backhoe treated all 
> conduits the same.  Not trying to shoot the messanger jsut 
> trying to make a point.
>
> Points of entry is different than the number of pipes.  The 
> biggest single problem in the security of these networks is 
> physical diversity, at least in my biased point of view.  
> There are six different sets of right of ways in Manhattan 
> and forty something fiber providers, but no one seems to fess 
> up when they are not offering redundancy but just another 
> pipe in the same conduit.  Do the math and you see the 
> problem.  It is not just a SFTI problem but a generic 
> problem.  Just worrisome that it appears that SFTI does not 
> see it as a problem, or worse view at as a problem they have 
> solved by laying new pipe in the same conduits.
>
> The problem rears it head in several examples where 
> effeciency and cost savings trumps true diversity.  
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Temkin, David" <temkin () sig com>
> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:11 am
> Subject: RE: RE: NYSE
>
> > It's my understanding that
> > A) The providers of the actual ring did install "Separate" 
> fiber for 
> > SFTI but I have no idea whether or not they're in new 
> rights of way - 
> > I'm willing to bet not
> >
> > B) Reducing the points of entry into the ring reduces 
> complexity and 
> > makes it much easier to recover the ring in the event of a disaster.
> > Understanding that SIAC has thousands and thouands of customers 
> > connecting at the DS-3+ level to get data that's generated from one 
> > place means that you need to keep the distribution uniform.
> > Basically,it boils down to them being able to say "Our ring 
> is up, if 
> > your connectivity to our ring is down it's your problem" in 
> order to 
> > maintainfairness between Trading firm A that has 10 people 
> and Trading 
> > firm B that has 10,000 people.
> >
> > When they were maintaining separate interfaces for each 
> customer they 
> > could potentially run into issues where they'd get certain larger 
> > firmsback able to trade sooner than smaller ones and then 
> you create 
> > unfair market disadvantages.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: sgorman1 () gmu edu [mailto:sgorman1 () gmu edu]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:40 AM
> > > To: Temkin, David
> > > Cc: Alen Capalik; Philip Lavine; nanog
> > > Subject: Re: RE: NYSE
> > >
> > >
> > > There are a few things about the SFTI set up that are a 
> bit baffling 
> > > to me.  From their website:
> > >
> > > SFTI carries IP traffic over a topology of redundant, 
> self-healing 
> > > fiber-optic rings, completely independent of all other telco 
> > > circuits and conduits. SFTI's design is straightforward, 
> > > consolidating traffic into fewer pipes, which minimizes 
> complexity 
> > > and reduces the number of potential points of failure.
> > >
> > > What does "completely independent of all other telco circuits and 
> > > conduits" mean?  Did they get their very own "new" right 
> of ways dug 
> > > out.  A certain government report listed their physical fiber 
> > > provider, and they certainly are not new right of ways.  Further, 
> > > I'm a bit baffled how reducing the number of pipes reduces the 
> > > number of potential points of failure.
> > > Usually fewer pipes means less diversity.  A ring is nice till 
> > > someone hits it in two places.  I also wonder how many of these 
> > > rings are collapsed in a single conduit.  I hope someone 
> over there 
> > > is asking tough questions and are following up on getting 
> a second 
> > > physical fiber provider.
> > > I'd recommend not advertising who it this time either.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Temkin, David" <temkin () sig com>
> > > Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 9:45 am
> > > Subject: RE: NYSE
> > >
> > > > You can no longer order "direct" lines to SIAC unless you have
> > an
> > > > extremely compelling reason.  Nowadays you must order a
> > > line to "SFTI"
> > > > which is their Disaster-Recovery-centric service.  You are
> > correct
> > > > aboutthe connection method, but he will need to be specific
> > and
> > > > understandthat he wants to connect to SFTI and not just "SIAC"
> > > > directly anymore.
> > > >
> > > > See: https://sfti.siac.com/sfti/index.jsp  for more details.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-nanog () merit edu
> > > [mailto:owner-nanog () merit edu] On Behalf
> > > > > Of Alen Capalik
> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 10:20 PM
> > > > > To: Philip Lavine
> > > > > Cc: nanog
> > > > > Subject: Re: NYSE
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 10:36:16AM -0700, Philip Lavine wrote:
> > > > > > If I where to connect to SIAC thru a SONNET ring who's
> > > > > would it be? Is
> > > > > > it private or public?
> > > > >
> > > > > They use any provider (Verizon, MCI, AT&T and ConEd
> > > Comm.), however
> > > > > ConED Comm. is their primary backbone provider.  So,
> > > here's how you
> > > > > go about it.  You order a line (DS-1, DS-3, 100Mb/s, Gig,
> > > whatever)
> > > > > from any of the providers you use (if I were you I would
> > > use either
> > > > > Verizon or ConEd Comm, I can give you the number for ConEd
> > Comm. 
> > > > > head sales person).  You contact SIAC, and you start the
> > > paperwork
> > > > > to get your network connected into their backbone SONET.  
> > > Once you
> > > > > get permit numbers, you have the provider drop a line
> > > into one of 5
> > > > > data centers around NY area, and SIAC gives you a port on
> > one of
> > > > > their Juniper Routers.  They also give you a VLAN setup
> > > requirements
> > > > > so you can configure your border switch/router.
> > > > > The line is owned by you.  SIAC only gives you a port on
> > their
> > > > > routers.  NOTE: NEVER ORDER ONE LINE.
> > > > > ORDER TWO OR MORE LINES TO DIFFERENT SIAC DATA CENTERS.  The
> > cost
> > > > > for one port (one line) is as follows:
> > > > >
> > > > > MRC (Monthly Reaccuring Cost):                                
> > > > >       $4,400.00 
> > > > > NRC (Non-Reaccuring Cost i.e. one time fee):  $8,800 
> > > > >
> > > > > Any line you drop at SIAC will cost you that amount, and
> > > that's on
> > > > > top of the line costs from the provider.  That's it.  Hope
> > this
> > > > > helps.  Like I said it's a very long and tedious process
> > > getting the
> > > > > line up and running with SIAC.
> > > > > They are practically a government institution, and they
> > > don't move
> > > > > too fast for anybody.
> > > > >
> > > > > > --- "R. Benjamin Kessler" <rbk () midwestnsg com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've setup a highly-redundant connection for one of my
> > > > clients
> > > > > > > (equipment in two different access-centers in two
> > > > > different cities).
> > > > > > > What are you looking to do?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Ben
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > > > > R. Benjamin Kessler
> > > > > > > Sr. Network Consultant
> > > > > > > CCIE #8762, CISSP, CCSE
> > > > > > > Midwest Network Services Group
> > > > > > > Email: rbk () midwestnsg com
> > > > > > > http://www.midwestnsg.com
> > > > > > > Phone: 260-625-3273
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: owner-nanog () merit edu
> > > > > > > [mailto:owner-nanog () merit edu] On Behalf Of Philip Lavine
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 2:38 PM
> > > > > > > To: nanog () merit edu
> > > > > > > Subject: NYSE
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does anyone have experience in setting up a direct
> > > > > connection with
> > > > > > > NYSE, specifically SIAC or SFTI?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >           
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> > > > > --
> > > > > Alen Capalik
> > > > > CTO
> > > > > Wiretap Networks Inc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tel:          (310)497-3512
> > > > > Email:                alen () wiretapnetworks com
> > > > > Website:      http://www.wiretapnetworks.com
> > > > >
> > > > > /*
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