nanog mailing list archives
Re: Yahoo and IPv6
From: Owen DeLong <owen () delong com>
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 18:18:12 -0700
On May 10, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Matthew Palmer wrote:
On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 11:22:54AM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote:On May 10, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Igor Gashinsky wrote:On Tue, 10 May 2011, Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu wrote: :: On Tue, 10 May 2011 02:17:46 EDT, Igor Gashinsky said: :: > The time for finger-pointing is over, period, all we are all trying to do :: > now is figure out how to deal with the present (sucky) situation. The :: > current reality is that for a non-insignificant percentage of users when :: > you enable dual-stack, they are gong to drop off the face of the planet. :: > Now, for *you*, 0.026% may be insignificant (and, standalone, that number :: > is insignificant), but for a global content provider that has ~700M users, :: > that's 182 *thousand* users that *you*, *through your actions* just took :: > out.. 182,000 - that is *not* insignificant :: :: At any given instant, there's a *lot* more than 182,000 users who are cut off :: due to various *IPv4* misconfigurations and issues. Yes, but *these* 182,000 users have perfectly working ipv4 connectivity, and you are asking *me* to break them through *my* actions. Sorry, that's simply too many to break for me, without a damn good reason to do so.In other words, Igor can't turn on AAAA records generally until there are 182,001 IPv6-only users that are broken from his lack of AAAA records.There may be something stupid I haven't considered about this, but wouldn't a v6-only end user be making their DNS requests over v6 (at least to their ISP's resolver), and if their provider was nice enough to continue that v6ness up the chain, wouldn't it be fairly simple (to the point of "I'd be stunned if everyone wasn't already doing this") to say to Yahoo/Google/whatever's ultra-smart whitelisting DNS servers, "v6-whitelist all v6 DNS requests"?
Not necessarily and almost entirely irrelevant. Yahoo may or may not get the query from the ISP's resolver directly. An IPv6-only client might have a private IPv4 address that reaches an IPv4 resolver within their local network that may or may not have public IPv4 connectivity. There is no clean or reliable way to infer anything about the protocol stack on the client from an authoritative DNS server.
That way, v6-only people are guaranteed to get the AAAA records they so badly crave, without making an excessive mess for anyone else.
Another beautiful theory murdered by a brutal gang of facts.
I know this falls down if your v6-only-providing ISP takes your recursive DNS requests on IPv6 and sends them out via IPv4 even if AAAA records were available, but why would anyone be that dumb? Since the initial request would come in via v6, anything whitelisting in this fashion would be sending the AAAA records out, so you should never have to fall back to v4 unless someone isn't providing DNS via v6 at all, and who would willingly have their site v6 enabled without v6 enabling the DNS? (Yes, I'm aware of registrars who don't accept v6 glue, but get your whacking sticks out and keep whackin' 'til they fix it -- and kudos to gkg.net for having that sorted *before* I put my first v6 site up).
It's not a matter of dumb. There are all kinds of reasons this might occur. For example, an IPv6-only host behind an HE Tunnel on a network that gets IPv4 only service from another ISP, but, is out of IPv4 addresses. Owen
Current thread:
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6, (continued)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Robert Drake (May 14)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Owen DeLong (May 09)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Igor Gashinsky (May 09)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Owen DeLong (May 10)
- RE: Yahoo and IPv6 Tony Hain (May 10)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Tore Anderson (May 11)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Valdis . Kletnieks (May 10)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Igor Gashinsky (May 10)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Owen DeLong (May 10)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Matthew Palmer (May 10)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Owen DeLong (May 10)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Franck Martin (May 11)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Scott Whyte (May 12)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Owen DeLong (May 12)
- RE: Yahoo and IPv6 Frank Bulk (May 10)
- RE: Yahoo and IPv6 Frank Bulk (May 10)
- RE: Yahoo and IPv6 Igor Gashinsky (May 11)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Lorenzo Colitti (May 13)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Bjoern A. Zeeb (May 13)
- RE: Yahoo and IPv6 George Bonser (May 13)
- Re: Yahoo and IPv6 Randy Bush (May 13)