Nmap Announce mailing list archives
Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime
From: dhaag () net-defender net (dhaag)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 09:45:09 -0500
I have watched this thread and have to interject in order to make a few points clear to everyone.
All of us that use nmap would NOT be in trouble...only the author, the web/ftp site and possibly this mailing list.
Dead Wrong. No more then a library is guilty of terrorism because it has books on terrorism. The Constitution and its Amendments supercede and apply here. The author is not, and could not be found to be, guilty of anything, as long as the program or software was not "specifically" designed to be used in a criminal activity as defined in the act.
Quote: a device, including a computer program, designed or adapted [specifically] [primarily] [particularly] for the purpose of committing any of the
offences
established in accordance with Article 2 - 5;
The above offense and the definition below would say that making nmap and putting on a website for download would fit under the definition of "dolus eventualis" -- also know in Homer Simpson terms as "Doh!". There's no way that an author or web/ftp site could say "well gee, we didn't think it
would
be used for bad purposes". It's only a little bit of a stretch to say
that
a mailing list is a "piece of software" that educates users how to do bad things (note -- I'm not talking about majordomo here...but the specific mailing list). Hacker websites would most certainly be targeted.
Wrong again. NMap, to the best of my knowledge, is not [specifically] [primarily][particularly] designed or intended to commit any of the offences listed. It is a security review tool for legal use by authorized individuals in the maintenance and upkeep of their network and systems. The same as other products that assist in network tuning, such as NetXray, Openview, ISS Security Scanner, and a plethora of others. List groups that discuss the software or technology, as well as "hacker sites" that do not promote the software for illegal purposes would not be effected. This is covered under the 1st amendment.
(6) In the understanding of certain members of the Drafting Group,
"intent"
may also cover "dolus eventualis". For common law countries, this notion would be similar to "recklessness", i.e. that a person is aware of the
high
risk that a certain result may occur and knowingly accepts it. The
Drafting
Group agreed that the interpretation of "intent" should be left to
national
laws, but it should not, where possible, exclude "dolus eventualis".
Whether or not this ever makes it into the act is totally irrelevant. The courts would not allow it to be used in a prosecution due to "breadth of scope" and vagueness. "Dolus Eventualis" would never fly, if it did, one could also apply Dolus Eventualis in across the board litigation. As an example. you buy a new car - you drive the new car - you have an accident in the new car and are injured severely - you cannot sue the manufacturer using Dolus Eventualis as a basis, even though the manufacturer was aware of the high risk that a certain result ( injurous accidents ) would occur, and knowingly accepted the risk by continuing to manufacture automobiles. Just imagine the class actions that could by pursued on something so broad and vague as Dolus Eventualis. As in any "Draft" there is much to be hashed out. And, just because it may or may not become Law, it still has to stand the test before the courts. Which, in its present state, it would not do. Just my two cents worth. Dale Haag CCSA/CCSE/CCSI/CNTE/CIE/CFE/CCI/CFT/VCS/CSI/ICSA/ISSA/HTCIA/HTCN/HTCC President Net-Defender Seabrook, TX 77586 (281) 532-1488 voice (877)733-5451 fax http://www.net-defender.net
Current thread:
- Draft Convention on Cybercrime Matt Marnell (Jun 02)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime William Bradd (Jun 02)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime David Ford (Jun 02)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime Bart van Leeuwen (Jun 02)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime Mike Black (Jun 03)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime dhaag (Jun 03)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime Bart van Leeuwen (Jun 03)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime David Dennis (Jun 03)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime Mike Black (Jun 03)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime White Vampire (Jun 03)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime Tyler Allison (Jun 03)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime Matt Marnell (Jun 03)
- RE: Draft Convention on Cybercrime Marjorie Simmons (Jun 03)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime Jeff Simmons (Jun 03)
- Re: Draft Convention on Cybercrime Simple Nomad (Jun 04)
- RE: Draft Convention on Cybercrime Marjorie Simmons (Jun 05)