RE: wow - is a "shadow" politician still a politician?

["Alex Eckelberry" <AlexE () sunbelt-software com>]

Allow me to step into this shitstorm.  

For some reason, race got entered into this argument, which is, bluntly,
ridiculous, idiotic and completely beside the point.  

This is not a question of race. It's not a question of loving guns or
hating guns.  It's not a question of which guns are cooler or not.  And
it's certainly not a question of left vs. right. 

It's fundamentally a question of democracy. 

As one example, Georgetown history professor Carrol Quigley spent an
extensive amount of time researching the relationship between
inexpensive guns and democracy/freedom.  In essence, there is a direct
correlation. 

As he once said:

"In a period of specialist weapons the minority who have such weapons
can usually force the majority who lack them to obey; thus a period of
specialist weapons tends to give rise to a period of minority rule and
authoritarian government. But a period of amateur weapons is a period in
which all men are roughly equal in military power, a majority can compel
a minority to yield, and majority rule or even democratic government
tends to rise... But after 1800, guns became cheaper to obtain and
easier to use. By 1840 a Colt revolver sold for $27 and a Springfield
musket for not much more, and these were about as good weapons as anyone
could get at that time. Thus, mass armies of citizens, equipped with
these cheap and easily used weapons, began to replace armies of
professional soldiers, beginning about 1800 in Europe and even earlier
in America. At the same time, democratic government began to replace
authoritarian governments (but chiefly in those areas where the cheap
new weapons were available and local standards of living were high
enough to allow people to obtain them)."

(From Tragedy and Hope http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/094500110X
-- and further elucidated in his book, "Political Weapons and
Stability")

I own guns, have a concealed carry permit and have undergone training
and certification in the guns and gun safety.  That being said, the guns
are locked away and I don't shoot them.  Frankly, I could care less
about the guns themselves and don't even like shooting that much. 

My belief in gun ownership has always been fundamentally based on the
belief that free citizens must not rely on the government for their
safety; and that an armed society is a free society.  I also do not
trust governments.  I'm sorry, this may seem radical to some, but
governments have had a history of not being worthy of our trust.
Individuals in governments are just fine.  But governments themselves
(as a collective political body) have a pretty terrible history. 

History shows us countless examples of how this has played out.  And I
have some rather effective personal experiences that validate my
beliefs. 

To think, in some Pollyanna fashion, that what has happened in the past
will not happen again, because we are "more enlightened" today, is
whistling past the graveyard.  Every civilization in the past ultimately
failed, and every one of those civilizations believed itself to be
"enlightened".  And plenty of "democratic" institutions in the past have
failed as well.  The American experiment can only last so long as we are
vigilant and fierce in our protection of our freedoms.   Whether this
includes being fighting warrantless wiretappings, torture, CCTV or gun
control, it all goes into the same basket: Keeping the government in its
role as a body that is by and for the people -- not body onto itself,
answerable to only itself. 

Alex



-----Original Message-----
From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org [mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org]
On Behalf Of Drsolly
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 3:34 PM
To: Chris Blask
Cc: funsec
Subject: RE: [funsec] wow - is a "shadow" politician still a politician?

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Chris Blask wrote:

> ________________________________
>
> From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org on behalf of Drsolly
> Sent: Wed 8/29/2007 1:13 PM
> Drsolly bleated:
> > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Brian Loe wrote:
> > > On 8/29/07, Drsolly <drsollyp () drsolly com> wrote:
>
> > > > Huh. So there's no other way that this could be financed.
> > > Taxes. Americans, in general, do not appreciate new taxes. The 
> > > funds raised through guns and hunting are in the trillions.
> > Well, if I were American (which thank the lord I'm not) I'd be 
> > willing to
>
> Aha!  The true colors come out - a racist bigot!

Huh? How is it racist to be glad I'm not American? "American" isn't a
race, it's a country.
 
> Glad to know you have a Klan to belong to that provides you with a 
> blanket right to hate an arbitrary group.

Americans aren't an arbitrary group, and I don't hate them. I don't know
how you got from "I'm glad I'm not American" to the idea that I hate
them.
 
> It's always so interesting to find the hypocrisy at the base of the 
> self-styled Enlightened.  "All cultures are good, all people are 
> great- except for that group over there!".  On behalf of myself and my

> culture
> - in a manner that fits with your evolved worldview - have a Nice Time

> as you go fuck yourself. :~)

You're an American, aren't you. I can tell.

_______________________________________________
Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts.
https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec
Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.

_______________________________________________
Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts.
https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec
Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.