RE: wow - is a "shadow" politician still a politician?

[Drsolly <drsollyp () drsolly com>]

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Chris Blask wrote:

> > > I am more than a little sick of the popular hobby of using ideals that I hold
> > > very dear to insult me and everything I believe in.
>
> > If your ideals are wrong, then that's not too surprising. So, are your
> > ideals wrong?
>
> Lost me on that one, mate.  The ideals are simply the use of reason and
> the realization that human individuals are competent.  Hard for me to
> see how those could be wrong

You think that humans are competent? You should get into the IT industry 
for a while, that should change your mind! Some humans are competent at 
some things. Usually, not many things.

, and the implications of them being correct
> is the root of this entire debate (and in fact imo The Great Debate of
> Mankind for the last century or so, anyway).  If they are incorrect then
> all the Central Planning branches of philosophy are correct (socialism,
> genetic aristocracy, dictatorship...), but empirical evidence does not
> seem to support that.

Uh, no. The Central Planners are incompetent too. Usually, more so than 
the average, since they have less incentive to be competent.

> I may have over-pounced on your comment in its context, but as I've
> noted it was just a nicely placed softball which I chose for a variety
> of reasons to swing at.  You cannot deny all the implications behind the
> fact that you would make such a statement nor that it might be fair to
> say that you would not make the same statement in regards to a different
> culture.  Regardless, your little aside was just a lapping on the beach
> amidst an ocean of snide pop-culture commentary which begs to have its
> monotonously predictable rhythm disturbed.

Yes, there are some countries I'd be willing to live in. The main one of 
these, is England, of course, but I'd be willing to try Australia, New 
Zealand and a few other places.
  
> The best summation I have seen of the root of the success of Victorian
> British culture is during a meeting in a tavern in Neal Stephenson's
> "Diamond Age".  To attempt to paraphrase while transposing into this
> context: You are suggesting that it is better to have no ideals and to
> mock those who have ideals but do not always succeed in achieving them,
> than to have ideals that are difficult to achieve and striving for them.

No, I'm suggesting that you should constantly criticise your ideals, 
rather than constantly defend them (or worse, deify them).


_______________________________________________
Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts.
https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec
Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.