Re: Civil Disobedience

["Ken Ludeman" <kludeman () adi-cs com>]

I agree with Joel.....  Defacing, unethical hacking, and virus-writing with
intent to distribute is a crime and the punishments for these crimes should
be looked at more closely.  But the "increase in government surveillance
authority" is of greater concern and a risk to our civil liberties.

Additional "2 cents" worth

Ken

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Rivers" <rivers () lcms org>
To: "John Thornton" <jthornton () hackersdigest com>; <declan () wired com>;
<ah () well com>; <vuln-dev () securityfocus com>; <oth () 2600 com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: Civil Disobedience


> What civil liberties are we giving up?  Since when is hacking,
> virus-writing, and website defacing a civil liberty?  I
> will agree that life imprisionment is a little harsh for defacing
> a web site but I think that harsher penalties hopefully will serve as a
> deterent for this type of behavior.
>
> I'll say that the "increase in government surveillance authority" is the
> primary area of concern in regards to "losing civil liberties" in this
bill.
> If anything, this is the area we should be focusing our concern, not on
> harsh penalties for those who are attempting illegal behavior.
>
> My 2 cents worth,
>
> Joel Rivers
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Thornton [mailto:jthornton () hackersdigest com]
> > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 9:30 AM
> > To: declan () wired com; ah () well com; vuln-dev () securityfocus com;
> > oth () 2600 com
> > Cc: John Thornton
> > Subject: Civil Disobedience
> >
> >
> > ( Moderator: Please pass this though Blue Boar. Please just allow this
> > thread even if it is just for a day )
> >
> > In case you have been living under a rock the past few weeks. You should
> > know that our civil liberties are under attack. Kevin Poulsen wrote:
> > "Hackers, virus-writers and web site defacers would face life
imprisonment
> > without the possibility of parole under legislation proposed by the Bush
> > Administration that would classify most computer crimes as acts of
> > terrorism."
> > ( http://www.securityfocus.com/news/257, Hackers face life imprisonment
> > under 'Anti-Terrorism' Act). When you read the news this morning you
will
> > see that this bill was passed by the Senate.
> > (http://www.securityfocus.com/news/265, Senate passes terror bill).
> >
> > I will say that most of the readers of this news group are not hackers
but
> > Network Administrators that are very involved with the Security
Community.
> > That is why I am asking you, not to report minor scans against
> > your network
> > to the abuse department of any ISP if this bill becomes law.
> >
> > I as a Network Administrator for many years now have been on a routine
to
> > check my logs for scans against my network every morning and send the
logs
> > of attacks to the abuse department of the ISP. I encourage every Network
> > Administrator I ever talked to follow this practice to this day. It is
my
> > job Network Administrator to report these attacks on my network,
> > it is what
> > I am paid to do. However if/when this bill becomes law I will no longer
> > report these attacks and I urge every Network Administrator to join me
in
> > this Civil Disobedience Protest against this bill.
> >
> > If/When this bill becomes law, Hackers/Script Kiddies will no longer be
> > looked at as just kids messing around with computers, but as terrorists.
> > Just as the press started to tell the difference between a
> > criminal who uses
> > computers and a Hacker. Now they all are just going to be
> > terrorist. I have
> > a problem with this.
> >
> > Perhaps you think this could not happen to you. Well I would suggest you
> > read the story on Jerome Heckenkamp ( http://www.freesk8.org/ ). I
> > contributor to BugTraq who wrote a exploit for qpop who is now facing 16
> > counts of computer crimes, a maximum sentence of 85 years, and up to $4
> > million in fines. After Qualcomm reported him to the FBI. This
> > case is harsh
> > now, just imagine if this happen under the 'Anti-Terrorism' bill.
> > This could
> > happen to you.
> >
> > Again, I have always felt it was my duty to report attacks against my
> > network to there ISP. I looked at it as doing my part to make the
internet
> > more secure. I figured it is a good lesson for the kid to have his
service
> > taken away. If this bill becomes law then its no longer just some kid
> > getting his service taken away. It is something that can escalate to
much
> > more and could result to some kid going to jail for a long time.
> > I will not
> > be a part of it even if there is just a slight possibility that this can
> > happen. I want nothing to do with it.
> >
> >  I ask each and every one of you to join me in this protest. It is not
to
> > late to make a difference. Once you lose your right you will never get
it
> > back.
> >
> > Thank you for your time,
> > John Thornton  -  jthornton () hackersdigest com
> > Editor in Chief
> > Hackers Digest -  www.hackersdigest.com
> >
> >      H  A  C  K  E  R  '  S    D  I  G  E  S  T
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > Issue 2 comes out November 1st. Will you get it?
> > --------------------------------------------------
> >                 www.hackersdigest.com