Re: Actual Climate Change Thread

[Vincent Hoffman <vince () unsane co uk>]

http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/
see 3a

Larry Seltzer wrote:
> And what happened during the Medieval warming period, when Greenland
> was green, vineyards were grown in England and Europe was generally warm?
>
>  
>
> Climate warmists claim this was a localized phenomenon. I suspect
> records from other parts of the world aren’t as good and using proxies
> is difficult.
>
>  
>
> Larry Seltzer
> Contributing Editor, PC Magazine
>
> larry_seltzer () ziffdavis com
>
> http://blogs.pcmag.com/securitywatch/
>
>  
>
> *From:* funsec-bounces () linuxbox org
> [mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org] *On Behalf Of *Martin Tomasek
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:47 AM
> *To:* Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu
> *Cc:* funsec () linuxbox org
> *Subject:* Re: [funsec] Actual Climate Change Thread
>
>  
>
> Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu <mailto:Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:49:32 +0100, Martin Tomasek said:
>  
>   
>
>     So you can measure global area represented by different climates, but 
>
>     averaging temperature over the areas (or globally) is quackery. Average 
>
>     global temperature has no meaning. 
>
>         
>
>  
> So during the last ice age, what did the global average temperature do?
>   
>
>
> This is difficult question. We know of ice ages by proxies, such as
> traces of big moving blocks on rock surfaces, ice cores etc. These
> proxies are mostly placed in arctic area or high in the mountains (so
> you have no reliable data from Africa). BTW, this is one sources of
> difficulties in dating of egyptian Sphinx, which appears to be about
> 8000 years older than the age shown by radionuclid dating and noone
> knows what to do with that.
>
> We know that weather is chaotic system, which we are unable to predict
> for a long time and which has unevenly (and one should say
> chaotically) distributed temperature over space. So, average
> temperature depends on methodology of measurement. It depends on which
> places you choose to include in global average and on weights of the
> places (you are calculating weighted average).
>
> I believe that in most cases of ice age global temperature calculation
> you will get temperature lower than today.
>
> I tried to find more information on proxies in and near Africa, I'll
> read this book, seems promising:
> http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11676 but also a little
> disappointing - they use graphs produced by Michael Mann, infamous by
> his invention of 'hockey stick chart'. And they also use tree ring
> data (which is not reliable temperature proxy).
>
> Speaking of Michael Mann, here is funny video reacting to leaked
> emails: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEiLgbBGKVk (They discarded
> temperature data, obtained by tree ring proxies, from IPCC report. It
> showed temperature decline).
>
> -- 
> Martin Tomasek
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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