funsec mailing list archives
Re: Actual Climate Change Thread
From: Alex Eckelberry <AlexE () sunbelt-software com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:29:46 -0500
On a vaguely, sort-of-related tangent, I saw The Road yesterday. Well, that was an upper. Alex -----Original Message----- From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org [mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org] On Behalf Of Vincent Hoffman Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:42 AM To: Larry Seltzer Cc: funsec () linuxbox org; Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu Subject: Re: [funsec] Actual Climate Change Thread http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics/ see 3a Larry Seltzer wrote:
And what happened during the Medieval warming period, when Greenland was green, vineyards were grown in England and Europe was generally warm? Climate warmists claim this was a localized phenomenon. I suspect records from other parts of the world aren’t as good and using proxies is difficult. Larry Seltzer Contributing Editor, PC Magazine larry_seltzer () ziffdavis com http://blogs.pcmag.com/securitywatch/ *From:* funsec-bounces () linuxbox org [mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org] *On Behalf Of *Martin Tomasek *Sent:* Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:47 AM *To:* Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu *Cc:* funsec () linuxbox org *Subject:* Re: [funsec] Actual Climate Change Thread Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu <mailto:Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu> wrote: On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:49:32 +0100, Martin Tomasek said: So you can measure global area represented by different climates, but averaging temperature over the areas (or globally) is quackery. Average global temperature has no meaning. So during the last ice age, what did the global average temperature do? This is difficult question. We know of ice ages by proxies, such as traces of big moving blocks on rock surfaces, ice cores etc. These proxies are mostly placed in arctic area or high in the mountains (so you have no reliable data from Africa). BTW, this is one sources of difficulties in dating of egyptian Sphinx, which appears to be about 8000 years older than the age shown by radionuclid dating and noone knows what to do with that. We know that weather is chaotic system, which we are unable to predict for a long time and which has unevenly (and one should say chaotically) distributed temperature over space. So, average temperature depends on methodology of measurement. It depends on which places you choose to include in global average and on weights of the places (you are calculating weighted average). I believe that in most cases of ice age global temperature calculation you will get temperature lower than today. I tried to find more information on proxies in and near Africa, I'll read this book, seems promising: http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11676 but also a little disappointing - they use graphs produced by Michael Mann, infamous by his invention of 'hockey stick chart'. And they also use tree ring data (which is not reliable temperature proxy). Speaking of Michael Mann, here is funny video reacting to leaked emails: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEiLgbBGKVk (They discarded temperature data, obtained by tree ring proxies, from IPCC report. It showed temperature decline). -- Martin Tomasek ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
_______________________________________________ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list. _______________________________________________ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
Current thread:
- Re: Why it sucks to live in Southern Chile, (continued)
- Re: Why it sucks to live in Southern Chile Larry Seltzer (Dec 02)
- Re: Why it sucks to live in Southern Chile Paul Ferguson (Dec 02)
- Re: Why it sucks to live in Southern Chile Michael Graham (Dec 02)
- Re: Why it sucks to live in Southern Chile Robert Graham (Dec 02)
- Re: Actual Climate Change Thread Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 29)
- Re: Actual Climate Change Thread Larry Seltzer (Nov 29)
- Re: Actual Climate Change Thread seclists (Nov 29)
- Re: Actual Climate Change Thread Martin Tomasek (Dec 01)
- Re: Actual Climate Change Thread Larry Seltzer (Dec 01)
- Re: Actual Climate Change Thread Vincent Hoffman (Dec 21)
- Re: Actual Climate Change Thread Alex Eckelberry (Dec 21)
- finally! Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Gadi Evron (Nov 27)
- Re: finally! Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Larry Seltzer (Nov 27)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Robert Graham (Nov 26)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 26)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Gadi Evron (Nov 26)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 26)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Gadi Evron (Nov 26)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Alex Eckelberry (Nov 26)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah (Nov 26)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 26)