Re: UK: Drivers may be banned from smoking at the wheel

["Brian Loe" <knobdy () gmail com>]

On 5/14/07, sam stover <sam.stover () gmail com> wrote:
> Brian Loe wrote:
>
> > I could argue that I may not have the "right" to drink and drive but
> > that wouldn't limit my argument that the government has no "power" to
> > prevent me from doing so. The government's only real role is to exert
> > its power in an effort to enforce contracts, whether those be
> > contracts between states, itself and other governments, or between
> > citizens. One such contract is the social contract I have with my
> > fellow citizens requiring that I don't do them harm. Once I break that
> > contract, the government's power can be brought to bear and a
> > punishment be rendered.
>
> While I agree in principle, it doesn't really work that way in real
> life.  If a cop sees you throwing back a cold one in your car, he most
> certainly can pull you over and (possibly) arrest you - or at least give
> you a ticket (caveat:  I don't know, and am not arguing *what* he can do
> to you, just that he *can* do it).
>
> I'm not knocking your position - I agree with you more often than I
> don't.  But the fact remains that, in some cases, you don't have to
> cause anyone harm to get arrested - you just have to demonstrate the
> capacity and you can be pre-emptively pwnd.

Since this is essentially the same argument Solly would like to make,
I'll respond to yours for his benefit as well.

"Laws" may provide the authorities powers which trample on individual
rights - in fact, they do it all of the time. The People either accept
those losses or they don't. In today's society, especially in America
but I would guess in England too, people are used to losing rights and
therefore never think of rising up and freeing themselves of the
shackles they are bound by. Its partly the boiling frog analogy and
its partly because we just have it so damned good these days.

Because no one and no government can ever have a legitimate power to
control or punish your thoughts, I can not support a law banning
drinking and driving. This is not to say that I can't understand why
people would want such laws - I certainly do. I simply wish they'd
look at the results of those laws once they have them - which they
never do. The effects of DUI/DWI laws has been zilch, from everything
that I've read, in regards to reducing drunk driving incidents.
However it has caused several thousands of lives to be ruined where,
20 years ago, those same lives would have met with an officer who a)
made them walk home; b) gave them a ride home; c) let them sleep it
off on a nice steel cot -- EXCEPT in those cases where the impaired
has caused damage to someone else.

So, in short, do I think someone who is too drunk to drive should be
allowed to drive? Yes. Should they go to jail when caught? Perhaps,
for the night. Should they be punished to the fullest extent of the
law when they drive drunk and do someone else damage? ABSOLUTELY.
_______________________________________________
Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts.
https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec
Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.