Re: But Facebook are not spammers [was: And Facebook sells user data, too ...]

[Gadi Evron <ge () linuxbox org>]

On 5/22/10 4:55 AM, der Mouse wrote:
> > Facebook does not spam.
>
> Then they're picking on me, because the only way in which the mail
> they've aimed at me can be non-bulk is if they're doing it to only me
> (or some tiny subset including me - which subset would have to include
> people as unrelated as Paul Vixie, based on his mail here a few weeks

In that case, anyone who ever emailed you is picking on you, too. Let me 
explain.

If a person opens their email client -- and you do in fact know them or 
would not otherwise object to get an email from them -- and they email 
you, then it is not spam. It may be unsolicited, but it is not spam. Agreed?

If a person has access to a web system which lets them fill in your 
address and hit send, it is just a different sort of client. So far, not 
spam. And not Facebook. But wait, we are getting there.

> ago).  There's sure no question of it being email or unsolicited,
> leaving only the "bulk" leg of the UBE tripod in question.  (Yes, the

It is mail, and it is unsolicited, but it is not bulk.

> mail is substantively identical; the one I got to my netbsd.org
> address, the one Paul Vixie reported, and the one I got to a mailing
> list(!), all look identical except for mailmerge-style customizations.)

So, let me understand, as the web client in in fact their client, and 
they provide a suggestion of what text should be sent if you are too 
lazy to write your own, then it is spam? Sounds to me more equivalent to 
a signature file, which you can edit before you send. But wait, I am 
about to agree with you (eventually).

> It also has opt-out links, which, like all good spammers' remove-list
> links, are Web-only - they even call it "unsubscrib[ing]", implying
> that victims are on a list, not just getting one-offs.  Even if it's
> somehow not spam, it's sure going out of its way to look like it.

Ah! Here we finally reach the specific issue you have. They LOOK like 
spammers by offering you an option to unsubscribe from them ever letting 
anyone use their web client (with verified email address, no less) to 
email you.

So, they look like spammers for using the word "unsubscribe", and they 
look like spammers because they adhere to a protocol of how messages 
from them should look like. So far, I am not convinced.

Why, you ask? Because even if I did agree with everything you said 
above, I actually sent Facebook invitations before, and they were not 
bulk -- I sent them to a person, or two, or three, specifically. I did 
not target hundreds. Saying they are bulk senders is stating the truth 
-- so is AOL, ATT, and every other major mail provider in the world, who 
lets users both send email and do so via the web.

NOW -- let's talk of actual abuse.

1. Are you complaining that someone sent you spam text in your Facebook 
invite?
It is possible, after all, haven't spammers used any other service 
online to try and send spam, including bounces from legitimate mailing 
lists, abusing the "you are not subscribed so you can't post, but here 
is a quote of what you tried to post" feature?

In that case I recommend you report this to Facebook like you would any 
other abused service provider, or later on if they fail to deal with it 
(unlikely), block them.

2. Are you complaining that you get messages after they say they won't 
email you again by request of a certain person?
Then, my friend, you have a case and they would be A-holes, like Naymz 
or Plaxo.

3. Are you complaining that users email you from Facebook, and it's not 
what you want? Well than, block them along-side any other web-mail 
service. But they did not abuse you.

At least with Facebook they watch users carefully to try and stop abuse. 
(pun in there, you privacy dudes and dudettes).

What is your SPECIFIC complaint, please? Have they ever not dealt with 
an abuse report you sent?

        Gadi.
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