Re: Re: knife ban going to work?

[Drsolly <drsollyp () drsolly com>]

> > > Further, you have the relationship between environment and violent
> > > crime. You're not going to try and say your slums match ours are you?
> > > Point is still, gun ownership is not related to murder rate.
> >
> > I'm willing to believe that the slums in the "richest country in the
> > world" are worse than ours, although you might not have seen parts of
> > Glasgow, Birmingham and London.
>
> I don't have to, I've been to New York, Chicago, St. Louis, DC, LA,
> KC... shall I go on? I believe the World Factbook shows the UK as
> being slightly smaller than the state of Oregon (Portland slums
> anyone?!), figure it out.

Slums aren't caused by the area of the entire country, they're caused by 
poor conditions in cities, and you can be sure that we do have cities in 
England, and that there are poor areas within some of them.
 
> > > > > The UK - you keep happily dismissing - has the same number of
> > > > > homicides with guns in 00/01 as it had in 1998. THAT gives evidence
> > > > > that the murder rate isn't tied to gun ownership, does it not?
> > > >
> > > > I don't see how you deduce that.
> > >
> > > I deduce that from seeing the number of homicides for the UK and Wales
> > > dip from 95 levels and then start to climb back up again (it might not
> > > have topped off yet!).
> >
> > So, we have a static murder rate, and a static gun ownership rate, and
> > you're deducing something from that. Well, you can't.
>
> Huh? Are you blind? Do you only read what you want to read? ITS NOT STATIC!!!

Total violent crime

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page63.asp

Increased from 1981 to 1995, fallen back to pretty much the same level 
1995-2005

Homicide

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page40.asp

Rising from 650 per year to 850 per year. A lot of those were one man, 
Harold Shipman, a doctor who murdered a few hundred people. So, a small 
increase from 10 per million population, to 14 per million. Just to remind 
you about the US comparison, that's 56 pe million. By the way, I found 
some more statistics for you - 7% of those are narcotics-related

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/graphs/12.htm

So, your contention that drugs are a main cuase, is unfounded.

> > What you're missing here is that it isn't people that kill people, it's
> > people plus weapons that kill people, and a gun is probably the easiest
> > weapon for that purpose. And that, of course, is why you want to own a
> > gun.
>
> Dumbest friggin' thing I have ever read - and a LIE. Again, according
> to YOUR HOME OFFICE, murders with fists and feet make up half the
> murder rate!!!

Remind me where you got these "fists and feet" statistics; I see a figure
a bit less. But that's not important - don't you see? If you make murder
easier by giving everyone a gun, the percentage of murders using feet and
fists goes down, and the total number of murders goes up.
 
> Quit this, you're just being dishonest and its plain stupid to
> continue.

I accept your surrender, and hope that you won't be so stupid as to 
continue. If you do, I'll reply via email, to spare the other folks on 
this list the continuance.

> I give you a fact from your own country and you give me some
> emotional, knee-jerk, feel-good BS. I personally DO NOT CARE if you
> like guns. I don't care if you ever reconsider your position on the
> subject. I just want you to stop spreading lies about it.
 
The truth can hurt, when you aren't used to it, but ultimately, you'll 
find it's good for you.

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