Re: When are we going to start profiling? WAS RE: Don't spend too much time in the bathroom...PLEASE

[Amrit Williams <johndoe321 () gmail com>]

What proof do we have that non-random vs. random profiling is more
effective?

http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/student-papers/spring02-papers/caps.htm

We are human so prone to revert to profiling, conversely this creates an
inherent weakness as those who wish to do us harm simply need to understand
how we profile if they would like to bypass our controls. If one can
determine a pattern then it becomes easier to find a method to exploit it.

If caught late at night in a bad area of a major metropolitan city and come
across an 18-35 year old latino male covered in prison ink, wearing a
wife-beater with baggy jeans and a red bandana getting out of a dropped 1967
T-bird it is probably going to set off your "Danger Will Robinson" meter. If
one wanted to take me out in the middle of a major metropolitan city they
are going to be far more successful sending a goofy looking white-kid with a
pair of top siders, a polo, and some khakis - I would never see that coming.


On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Tomas L. Byrnes <tomb () byrneit net> wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu [mailto:Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:05 AM
> > To: Tomas L. Byrnes
> > Cc: RandallM; funsec () linuxbox org
> > Subject: Re: [funsec] When are we going to start profiling? WAS RE:
> > Don't spend too much time in the bathroom...PLEASE
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:52:44 PST, "Tomas L. Byrnes" said:
> >
> > > While not all Muslim males aged 18-35 are suicidal terrorists,
> > > virtually ALL suicidal terrorists and airplane hijackers in the last
> > > 40 years have been Muslim males aged 18-35. Therefore, being a lot
> > > more stringent in screening Muslim males aged 18-35 is more likely
> to
> > > catch a would be terrorist than randomly selecting those to be more
> > deeply screened.
> >
> > Actually, it's not more likely.  It isn't like the terrorists are
> > *idiots*.
> > You *do* realize that the increased scrutiny of every dark-skinned
> male
> > in the streets of Baghdad has caused an increase in the number of
> > *female* suicide bombers, right?
> >
> > > Male
> > > Muslim
> > > Devout
> > > Western Educated, especially in Engineering
> >
> > > If that offends them, then maybe they (and realistically, it is only
> > > the Islamic world that can end the scourge of Islamic terrorism)
> will
> > > do something about the funding of radicalizing Madrassas and
> > firebrand
> > > clerics that are at the root of the whole problem.
> >
> > Good.  So tell me - if we started profiling *your* ethnic group
> because
> > of the increased problems with homegrown right-wing extremists here in
> > the US (Ruby Ridge, McVeigh, the whole skinhead movement, murder of
> > abortion doctors in churches, etc etc) - what *realistic* steps could
> > *you* take to deal with the problem people?
> [Tomas L. Byrnes]
> In my teen years, I WAS profiled and searched when traveling in Northern
> Ireland, from the south, to Armagh cathedral. I didn't like it, and it
> colored my attitude towards the English for years, but the reality was
> that it was effective, and the privations suffered by Catholics due to
> the actions of the terrorists were a big part of the motivation to end
> the troubles. The ordinary people got fed up with their lives being
> ruined by a bunch of thugs stuck in a pre WWII mindset.
>
> When traveling to Israel from Ireland, through Germany, I was profiled
> and put through the wringer on the tarmac before being allowed into the
> terminal @ Ben Gurion. Once again, given the links between the IRA and
> the PLO, that made sense.
>
> When Irish guys who are ex-Army become more than an outlier in the
> ethnography of terrorists (McVeigh), then it will be reasonable to
> profile on that basis, and while I won't like it, I think it is a better
> use of resources than strip searching a recognizable celebrity who has
> no ties to extremism http://gothamist.com/2009/12/04/rihanna_1.php
> because some lottery ball said it was their turn.
>
>
> > Oh, you're in Conneticut and the problem is assholes in Wyoming?  Oh,
> > too bad.
> >
> > And yes, I *am* more worried that some stupid with a bunch of firearms
> > who listens to too much Glenn Beck and Teabagger propaganda will do
> > something than I am worried about Muslim terrorists.
> [Tomas L. Byrnes]
> Statistically, you would be completely off base, based on the number of
> deaths caused by Muslim terrorists versus right wing US extremists. You
> have a greater chance of getting shot by some criminal in Alexandria or
> DC than either, BTW.
>
> http://spotcrime.com/va/alexandria
>
> http://spotcrime.com/dc/washington
>
>
>
> >
> http://www.nhdflibrary.org/library/documents/Homeland%20Defense%20Libra
> > ry/Hot%20off%20the%20Presses/extremismreport.pdf
> http://static.crooksandliars.com/files/uploads/2008/12/whitesupremacist
> > recruitmentofmilitarypersonnel2_a0a33.pdf
> >
> > So you ready to be profiled?
> [Tomas L. Byrnes]
> As I said, I have been, multiple times. After my first shakedown and a
> few more trips where I would take the 1-way Thursday PM Israir to Eilat
> (and get heavily profiled), so I could dive and then drive up in time
> for work on Sunday, the Mossad gave me the green sticker, which means I
> go to the far right, short, line when I go through Ben Gurion, and the
> one on the left @ Newark.
>
> Profiling works, and in a world of limited resources, expending them
> non-randomly is a better use of them.
>
>
>
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